sharpening knife on belt grinder

Excellent article. Thanks for the great information! Secure your membership in this community by joining in the conversations.www.tormek.com. They were using the original Work Sharp with no adjustable speed so a full grinding speed had to be used, but did not mention that. Im certain that the Native did in fact hold its primary sharpness for much much longer than my pm2, both with maxamet. If you want quality service for your car with a more personal and friendly atmosphere, you have found it. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/04/23/what-happens-during-tempering-of-steel/, https://www.tequipment.net/FLIR/T560-DFOV/Building-and-Industrial-Thermal-Imagers/, How to Sharpen a Machete in 5 Simple Steps - Wilderness Today, https://www.youtube.com/embed/t6SEFqNbgc0, http://knifegrinders.com.au/SET/Effect_of_felt_and_paper_wheel_on_edge_retention.pdf. Unfortunatelly, this article did not provide any knowledge for me. I wrote briefly about the time-temperature relationship in tempering here: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/04/23/what-happens-during-tempering-of-steel/, This is interesting The measurement of knife sharpness and the impact of sharpening technique on edge durability. (2016): 1-7. I like to remove the least amount of metal, using the Edge Pro or Wicked Edge. Coarse enough to remove material but fine enough for a working edge. A typical tempering temperature for a knife steel is 400F or so, resulting in the desired hardness such as in the range of 58-62 Rc. Then I hone a smaller secondary bevel by hand. If you are saying that wishful thinking doesnt do much to help with the best science that we currently have, then I totally agree with you. If its an expensive knife that I have an investment in then Im partial to taking my time and using stones but at the end of the day knives are tools so I treat them as such. Putting aside that this experiment shows my stones are way higher grit than I need, does anyone have long-term experience using a belt sander for sharpening? PS. People with skills can drive Honda Accords with no issues and use belt grinders on knives. In theory this may be sufficient to avoid most of the negative effects we see in the data above. Roger Hamby of CATRA also tells me that in their testing of edge retention that over 75% of the knives they test suffer to some degree of edge softening due to the sharpening process. For now Im of the opinion that the pm2 was probably just underhardened, but I feel there is definetly eveidence implying that something happened in my testing that affected the steel at the edge. I can also do the same using a 2k and 5k belt sander followed by stropping on plain leather. The native was also noticably resisting sharpening way more than the pm2. Why does a beltsander remove more steel? I am curious if any study has been done to show yet, that water cooled grinding does indeed fully prevent temper damage. It could be very slow or even unattainable without water cooling because of how small knife edges are (microns). Then again one rarely cuts anything at all as fast and for as long as in a cardboard cut-test. I wouldnt think so, but you can try it out and tell us what you find. Because of the very small volume at the apex, it heats up much more quickly than the rest of the knife. Haha fossilized piece of shit. But still, the lack of more data on this point is very frustratingI really want to be able to get more information about what degree of softening we see on different steels, whether the lower options on the variable Ken Onion Work Sharp grinder (as opposed to the single speed original Work Sharp, which it appears was used in study 5) have an impact, to what degree regular misting offsets the problem, etc. use this "big production monster" ONCE to reprofile it and then NEVER AGAIN.. . Simply faster and easier. Burr formation does not require heat, it results simply from removing material from one side of the edge. A stone is going to take off the same material, just slower and with more time to mess up. Without knowing how long (how fast) someone was grinding particular spot and the grits and the steels involved, results are useless. If you want nice clean, fresh oats, you must pay a fair price. The edge retention in that one was crazy. Buy a 130 and 220 silicon carbide belts and keep the belt wet with a sponge. I did a test with cardboard on a maxamet blade, and like the other comments said it got VERY hot, too hot to Touch for more than a second. Do you think an infrared thermometer be effective in measuring this? The knifemakers shouting that their process is fine is not useful information, its just a defense of their products. If it already is frying my edges, would spraying the blade down with water from a spray bottle between each pass on the abrasive help? Faster is worse of course. The amount of heat generated depends on the geometry of the knife/part, grinding media, force against the sharpening media, the speed of operation, etc. However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes at a lower price. A very sharp edge can have a diameter under a micron. Just because more information is not available does not mean that the information we do have should be dismissed. It just takes half the time. Many of them are sad because it's usually a nicer production or mid-tech. Consider a sharp knife and a dull knife. When you occasionally have in a place without power how could you sharpen a blade? If that temperature is still exceeded then it wont matter, of course. Friction MAY be created, but it isnt required. The shoulder was just resisting my strokes forever until I finally managed to raise a small burr. My belt grinder has a variable speed motor, I seldom run it very fast but is still way quicker than by hand. I looked into infrared thermometers but the problem is exactly as you mentionedthe area of measurement for the infrared beam is too large to accurately measure the very edge of a knife blade. http://knifegrinders.com.au/16SET.htm But, that may be the same as saying: one can hit the fingeer (instead of a nail) with the hammer. . So my conclusion from this is that either my first blade was underhardened or the cardboard test did in fact draw put the temper. Tempering temperature varies by steel, but the knives I make are tempered between 350 and 400 and to get to that temperature on the edge, I find it hard to believe that I wouldnt be able to feel that in the steel. most knife makers sharpen on a belt grinder as do factories. I think belt grinders have their place. At Autochill engineering Services we maintain a level of excellence in service delivery. Recommended reading, I mean throughout the website knifegrinders.com.au. If we define "need" as something absolutely necessary, you could get away with one stone somewhere in the 400-800 grit range I think. Update:Michael Drinkwine sent me another report from Global where they reported factory sharpened and waterstone sharpened knives. I understand the concerns of burning the edge but as long as you are careful there isn't a problem. I know only that grinding can overheat a blade. https://www.youtube.com/embed/t6SEFqNbgc0 seems to have been set to private. Analysis of defect mechanisms in polishing of tool steels.Production Engineering5, no. Metallurgy and Testing of Knives and Steel. When a burr forms, it's usually easy to see as a thin bright line on the edge apex -- a line which had not been there moments ago. In this case the steel will be untempered and brittle. Thanks for all the great information, by the way. One of these bad boys would probably do the trick https://www.tequipment.net/FLIR/T560-DFOV/Building-and-Industrial-Thermal-Imagers/. Accra (Head office) -La Trade Fair 'T' Junction, Full Service of Automotive A/C Installation & Repairs, Accra Office, -La Trade Fair 'T' Junction. I will be joining your Patreon group! It is commonly reported that a new knife needs to be sharpened a few times before its performance can be evaluated, reportedly because the grinders that put the final edge on the knife will overheat the edge. It can take less than a second, or just a touch too much pressure, and you ruin the temper on a blade. I am majorly OCD about maximizing edge retention BUT hate manually sharpening (esp reprofiling). The easiest way to avoid overheated edges is to sharpen by hand, of course. It didn't feel hot and it was literally just a few licks across the belt, but yeah cheap steel. The bottom line is this: if it gives you the sharpness you are looking for (obviously without causing damage), then ultimately what you used to achieve that doesn't matter. One of the guest authors at the link above is Dr. Larrin Thomas. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/measuring-the-maximum-temperature-of-an-edge-during-belt-sanding-initial-results.1357231/. I only use it wet to sharpen knives for the most part as grinding hardened blades wet makes a mess. Below is the same high speed steel tap which was overheated to the degree that it was rehardened at the surface, which can be seen by the bright color at the edge: Microhardness measurements of that tap edge showed the effect of overheating: Away from the overheating in the dark region the hardness is at the original value of 65 Rc, it then transitions to the 58-50 Rc region where it was overtempered. In the end the following counts: if you get the results you want and like you're doing something right. For example, Ive been contemplating a setup like the following: Ken Onion Work Sharp on low speeds with automated misting to keep cool, then brief time spent with whetstone sharpening to replace the very narrow section of the edge that may have still suffered some softening. I looked at a number of reviews of the water cooled Tormek systems and clones. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Im thinking this might remove the over tempered steel from the grinder? While this site is the only place to learn something on these topics, this article has left me with questions and no usable answers. Belt grinders are fantastic. Or they mean that only one hand sharpening on whetsones fixes all the detemepring made by the factory power grind! If using very fine iron particles they will react in a similar manner when exposed to air even without grinding: Instead it is the heat generated by friction in the grinding process that can lead to overheated edges. Hopefully Im not committing some blog faux pas by commenting on a 2 year old thread. Last summer, I got a Viel 1x42 belt sander and modified it with a variable speed DC motor and reversing switch. I dont know if the infrared thermometer would have the resolution required to measure a tiny edge. I have done it once. Some people are just biased, or they are "elitists" who think "My way is the only correct way", when at the end of the day if the results are what you were looking for then the method doesn't fucking matter. The long tempering times are recommended for larger parts and for decomposing/destabilizing retained austenite. Then the other side was just as resistant. He opened the bottle and $300 immediately flashed! Would strop back to hairwhittling for over two weeks. Im fortunate to have inherited a used Tormek sharpener and absolutely love it. Do you think after carefully reprofiling them down to 15 dps on the WSKO at low speed, that putting 17 dps microbevels on by hand would likely remove the overheated edge and give me back max edge retention? Or have never ground a knife with a very thin geometry. Tempering is a time-temperature process, so short periods of time at high temperatures are equivalent to long holds at low temperatures. Just got Another blade in maxamet and Will try to see if theres a difference. Also not everyone has space for a belt grinder. Before stropping ot would still be hair popping arm hair. They work great for all types of sharpening. Am I doing it wrong? People here are biased towards stones, fyi.

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